Fly Me To The Moon

Crossposted at MLW

    There has been a lot of talk recently about the "energy crisis". I wonder if this is the same energy crisis we heard about in the 70's? If it is then that means for over 30 years instead of solving our domestic energy needs, we have ignored them and allowed them to grow. In 1970 we were importing about 24% of the oil we used and the embargo back then threw our economy into a tail-spin, imagine what would happen today when we import about 70%. Rather than using the past 30 plus years to develop new or existing technologies to reduce or break our dependence on oil, we have elected to do something worse than nothing. Instead of our vehicles getting smaller and more fuel efficient during this time they have actually gotten larger.

    Today we as a nation and as a world face one of the most daunting and important tasks in the history of mankind. We must put an end to our usage and dependence on fossil fuels. They have created an economic drain on our resources and they are killing our planet. We are borrowing money from one foreign country to pay our oil bills from another foreign country. This should be our biggest national security issue, yet few people are saying anything. You see it is the old diversion or bait and switch tactics. Focus on the faceless terrorists while we are bled dry by the oil countries and companies. How long do you think we can continue our crusade in the Middle East occupying these countries and still be dependent on their oil reserves?

    I remember when I was a child a speech I heard, it was in 1961. The speechmaker was then President John F. Kennedy and what he said seemed shocking to me at the time. He challenged this nation to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade. Now imagine what that sounded like back then, many thought the man insane. Space exploration was still in it's infant stages and the US was being beaten to every milestone by the Soviets. They had sent up the first satellite and the first man in space. The challenge seemed impossible at the time, after all space travel was the stuff of science fiction. But despite the overwhelming odds against the challenge enough of us accepted it and went about the business of making it a reality that we succeeded. Regardless of your opinion of the importance or relevance of space exploration, we all must marvel at the ingenuity we displayed as a nation to accomplish it.

Despite skeptics who thought it could not be accomplished, Kennedy's dream became a reality on July 20, 1969, when Apollo 11 commander Neil Armstrong took a small step for himself and a giant step for humanity, leaving a dusty trail of footprints on the moon. CNN

    Today we are being challenged by a different obstacle. One that I feel is vitally more important to not only us as a nation, but to the rest of the world. That challenge is how will we supply our energy needs into the future without destroying the planet we live on. The call has been sent up by both Al Gore and T. Boone Pickens as well as a host of other concerned citizens. The goal is to reduce and to eventually end our reliance on fossil fuels and replace them with clean renewable sources. Of course as with the naysayers of the 60's there are those who say "it is too hard and we can't do it". There are those who want us to not only continue on this path of destruction but to escalate it by continuing to drill for fossil fuels no matter what the consequences.

    It is sad to realize that we have become a nation of physically soft and intellectually lazy people. We have become fat, dumb, and happy. The energy companies would have us to believe that they will solve our energy needs for us. Are these the same energy companies that for the past 30 plus years have done absolutely nothing but rake in astronomical profits from fossil fuels and now they are going to put themselves out of business? Are these the same energy companies who in association with the automakers have given us the SUV and the Hummer as an answer to our shrinking energy supplies? It's like the airplane is crashing and no one is saying a word. We all see it happening and everyone is just quietly sitting in their seat with their seatbelt on waiting on the inevitable crash.

"We are borrowing money from China to buy oil from the Persian Gulf to burn it in ways that destroy the planet. Every bit of that's got to change," the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007 continued. "But if we grab hold of that common thread and pull it hard all of these complex problems begin to unravel and we will find that we are holding the answer to all of them right in our hand. The answer is to end our reliance on carbon-based fuels. I'm convinced that one reason we've seemed paralyzed in the face of these crises is our tendency to offer old solutions to each crisis separately -- without taking the others into account. And these outdated proposals have not only been ineffective -- they almost always make the other crises even worse." Mongabay

    This was from a speech given by Al Gore where he makes a direct appeal to the nation much in the same way that JFK did 40 years ago. Every time I see Al Gore I am reminded of what could have been done if he had been seated as President. That election and the following one demonstrates for those willing to see the state of our nation. George Bush offered us all the things we wanted with none of the sacrifice. He was the snake oil salesman who promised us panacea in a bottle. Al Gore on the other hand presented us with challenges which would have required sacrifice. Many of us chose the snake oil, because it was easier. The time for easy is over. There are no more easy answers. There are no more tax-cuts and war; there is no more deregulation without foreclosures.

The U.S. should switch to the use of natural gas-powered vehicles for a chunk of the national fleet, Pickens said.

"Natural gas is cleaner, it's cheaper, it's abundant and it's domestic," Pickens said.

Natural gas generates about 22 percent of the country's electricity. If most of that natural gas was diverted from electricity generation to fuel for cars and trucks, and if wind turbines generate that electricity instead, that would cut demand for imported oil by about $300 billion a year at today's prices, Pickens said. Straight Stocks

    We have the technology to begin to solve our problems, the question then is do we have the will? Are we willing as a nation to take up the challenge and change the way we live for the good of all? Or shall we continue to be the selfish bullies of the world consuming the lion share of all the natural resources despite our small numbers? The challenge is there for us as a nation and with all that is at stake how can we not accept it. Many people falsely believe that if we change that jobs will be lost and our economy will tank, but I ask you to remember all of the industries and products that were spawned by the space industry. It may even return us to a nation of producers and not just the biggest consumers on the planet. Anyone for a flight to the moon?

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic - John F. Kennedy

The Disputed Truth



Display:


I'm not sure I have much to add to this... (2.00 / 3)

But I think a combination of US willpower, technical know how and investment along the lines of the Apollo and Manhattan Projects should be one of the key announcements of a new democratic president.

But may I also say I've never seen this before - a diary on the rec list with NO comments.

Something strange is happening to MYDD


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 10:30:37 AM EST

err... (2.00 / 1)

some of those people recommending are people I'll vouch for. Maybe they just thought it was a well put together diary, and are still typing comments??


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:00:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know about everyone else, (none / 0)

but I'm busy and preparing to run out the door. I took a glance at a few diaries and rec'd a couple I liked. No time for a substantive response because I have to go.

Now I have to go dry my hair and get out of here.

(It's a good diary, though.)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fly Me To The Moon (2.00 / 2)

For all of the talk about energy policy being high on people's list of most important issues, it sure gets ignored on this site. I wrote a diary about McCain's claim that Bush lifting the executive ban on off-shore drilling was responsible for lowering the price of oil. That diary got 8 recs, but only 2 comments. That is ridiculous for a diary on what is supposed to be a hot issue.

This is a good diary. I hope it gets more attention and more comments.

I agree with you about needing a major initiative. All of the proposals, except for Gore's and Picken's are too modest. We need to commit to energy independence within 20 years. We can be a long ways towards it within 10 years, if we are willing to make the effort.

America has a chance to become the world leader on this issue. We could lead in technology and jobs in a very short time. This will transform the world.

The sad part of all of this is that Jimmy Carter pointed the way 30 years ago. Reagan screwed the world on this just as he screwed our country on so many other issues. That's something we need to hammer home. The Democrats wanted to do something about this 30 years ago and the Republicans blocked them and have continued to do so until we have reached the point we are at today.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 11:50:17 AM EST

sadly it's a bad policy (none / 0)

to bring up Carter -- but we need antoher engineer-President.

I don't know how feasible 20 years is, but I do know that directing a lot of money into the scientists' hands is a great way to get new technology...


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 11:59:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fly Me To The Moon (2.00 / 1)

Excellent Diary.

This is one of the most important issues we face.  About 8 years ago, my mother and I were talking and she believes that people will line up and pitch in and solve this problem.  I believed that people will wait until it is too late out of greed and self-interest.

This is probably a generational difference.  She is certain of American ingenuity and can do spirit, but all I have seen in my 43 years is self-interest.

I hope she is right and I am willing to make the sacrifices, however no one has asked me or you or anyone else to do so.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 11:52:46 AM EST

Let GM and Detroit burn to the fucking ground (2.00 / 1)

and then we'll find automakers who hire American engineers, instead of finanacial wizards again.

NO MORE BAILOUTS.

GM hasn't had engineers in ages. Fired them and they aren't changing that anytime soon.

America has proven time and time again, that though she is lazy and fat, she also can gird up her loins and serve with glory. Underestimate the doughboys at your peril.

Up Next: Exurbs turned into Greenhouses. We gotta do something better than ghost towns, right??


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 11:58:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let GM and Detroit burn to the fucking ground (2.00 / 2)

GM has plenty of engineers dedicated to the Volt project. You should read up on it. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/ge neral-motors

The wait list for the Volt is already at 10,000. I'd love to be able to buy one myself. I'll be ready for a new vehicle about the time the Volt comes out on the market. If I can't get a Volt, I think I'll go with a Prius-type vehicle with a plug-in modification.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:05:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wonder what the financial report (none / 0)

they send out to stockholders says about this...

Specifically, I'm interested in the breakdown of money being spent.

Just because someone is doing something good, doesn't mean it's being prioritized

thanks for the tip!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:12:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wonder what the financial report (2.00 / 1)

I've read several articles about this project. It looks like GM is almost staking their future on this project. They hope to not only be the first to bring a real plug-in to market, but to use that feat to regain their position as a technology leader. At one time, they were an innovative company, despite their current negative image. For instance, they introduced front-wheel drive in the late 60's with the Oldsmobile Toronado and the Cadillac El Dorado.

Unfortunately, GM became arrogant and complacent (read fat and sloppy) in the 1970's and they have yet to recover from the consequences from that attitude. They have been playing catch-up ever since. They may regain their once-deserved reputation as a manufacturing leader. It will take a lot of work and decades of proper management, but it is possible.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:28:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In the stock report (none / 0)

you get the odds, risks, and probability of success on the project. as legally mandated.

(you should be able to pull it up online, i think)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:45:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

for interested parties (none / 0)

should there be any
http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor_inf ormation/stockholder_info/
His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:01:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let GM and Detroit burn to the fucking ground (none / 0)

Im certain that we wont let GM fail. Failure really isn't an option when the economy is sagging like it is.


"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:29:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we don't have enough money to bailout everyone (none / 0)

3 trillion is our bailout budget. The markets have easily a hundred times that.

Money must be made to disappear.

The bubble must burst.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: we don't have enough money to bailout everyone (none / 0)

true. But without government assistance a GM failure would only put our economy into a bigger shit hole.

At this point we're a shinking ship.

The only thing that scares me is what happens after the bubble bursts.


"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:55:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

GM failing would let better companies come forward (none / 0)

plus, any other company woudln't have its pension plan.

America can afford to foot that bill, to get rid of moneysinking huge corporations that Just won't Die! (that last bit is a reference. dunno to what, though)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:00:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

new companies? (none / 0)

You got Japan giants dominatin' right now, hardly a time when a newb will strike gold and actually survive.

It isn't so much as we have to save 'GM' its more like we have to save the '8.7 billion dollars they pump into the economy' scenario.


"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so... you let it fail and nationalize (none / 0)

the auto industry!

ergh. channeling Zorgon again.

Itadekimasu!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: so... you let it fail and nationalize (none / 0)

yes.

wait.....

no.

ihavenoidea!

[ahaaa]


"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now, does anyone ELSE need a plate (none / 0)

of insanity?

I've got two Elder Gods and a Progenitor waiting in the back on ice...


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 03:41:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Natural Gas QUADRUPLED in Price (none / 0)

... commodities are not the solution.

Invest in supercaps. ;-)

Or in new battery technology.

It is absolutely idiotic to carry around a power generator (like a motor), when we can use batteries instead.

This is why the hybrid cars are 1980's technology.

I think Pickens is full of shit, and should be called out for lack of knowledge and foresight.

FUCK using BUSINESSMEN to fucking tell us what we should be fucking doing in SCIENCE.

Use Engineers, use someone without a Direct Fucking Stake in what he's talking about.

Or at least get someone with some foresight.

Couldn't you have talked to someone smarter???


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 11:56:22 AM EST

Re: Natural Gas QUADRUPLED in Price (none / 0)

Like it or not businessmen move the world. There is this thing called money and we do not live in a utopia.

It's called thieves get rich and saint's get shot. God don't answer prayers a lot.


"And to my fellow Americans I say this... get off my lawn." John McCain, August 2008
by JDF on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:48:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yet still, we have blueprints (none / 0)

for a fusion reactor.

God Save the US NAVY!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 03:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What? you don't think Miracles (none / 0)

make themselves do you?

God helps those who make miracles happen.

Businessmen are best when they're like dogs, lean and mean. Fat and lazy businessmen are the worst!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 03:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Natural gas reserves running low... (none / 0)

figure they'll be gone within fifty years, at least in America. so much for energy security.

Yes, yes, let's go jump on the OTHER sinking boat!

Uranium is gone in seventy years, based on current usage. End of nuclear weapons, changed into fuel?


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:06:30 PM EST

Re: Natural gas reserves running low... (2.00 / 1)

My big hope is for practical fuel production from algae farms. This would greatly expand the areas for energy production into areas that are too cloudy or ones that lack reliable wind energy, like MS.

Another source for energy in our state is the Mississippi River. There are some current projects that are using turbines driven by the current of the river that are similar to tests being run in the Gulf Stream. Someday, NO could get all of it's energy needs from the river.

Add projects like these to already practical sources like concentrating solar plants, wind farms, and nuclear and we can begin to shift a lot of our vehicles to electric plug-ins. We should be able to replace nuclear with fusion power before we run out of uranium.

This future is no longer a pie-in-the-sky dream. It can be done now.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:40:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i like solar power (none / 0)

big mirrors in SPAAACE!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Algae is great (none / 0)

low-tech, cheap, creating biomass and all sorts of wonderful things.

I think geothermal is massively underutilized.  the Yellowstone caldera is a shallow source of heat the size of several states, the pacific northwest is ripe, and shallow (ten feet) ground-source heat is also cheap, economical and low-tech.  

Living on water for most of this decade, the tremendous power of wave action is always apparent.  It is good to see that some projects are being built, but if the economics are there then you would think that large-scale deployment would be multi-beneficial (power, wave-reduction onto eroding coastlines, and potentially increasing sea-life ecologies).

-chris


"Because after an eight-year hiatus it is vital to have a president who leads the country instead of lassoing, roping and branding it." Shaun Appleby
by chrisblask on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Algae is great (2.00 / 1)

The biggest problem we face is not the scope of the project or the technological difficulties. The biggest holdup can be found in vested interests. Right now, it costs hundreds of millions or billions to build a power plant or nuclear facility. Mining coal or drilling for oil takes a lot of capital investment. That's just how the big boys like it. They want to cling to the status quo as long as possible. They will fight anything that lowers the entry bar to competition.

That's the same problem we face with health care reform - the vested interests (insurance companies, drug companies) will fight us every step of the way.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

While I don't disagree completely (2.00 / 1)

There is more to it than simple corruption or ill-will by Powers (not that these are non-issues, just imo not primary or sole-issues).

No-one intentionally works against their economic interests (if i innovate in a way that puts you out of work and helps everyone else, you still have hungry kids/employees and a reason to resist me).  So given that organizations observe Newton's Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica it is not logical to expect them to be good at nor motivated to change courses.

The bigger problem imho is that known methods are safe and emergent ideas are intrinsically risky.  It is exponentially more difficult to forecast the outcome of a direction when you have no historical data to base your predictions on, and inversely "safe" (at least in terms of retaining your job/office) in being able to reference extensive experiential data.  Lots and lots of great-sounding ideas have turned out to be, er, "problematic in execution" so those responsible for large-scale decisions are understandably reluctant to put their governmental of corporate necks on the line.

It often takes a savvy individual in a leadership position who is willing to risk looking like a fool to push paradigms over the edge.  Whether it is a political leader or an entrepreneur, someone has to give it the final push.  I think we are at that edge politically, economically and technically for some of these solutions, and I hope the new Pres. can provide some of that push (that in turn makes it easier for the Venture Capitalists to feel they are being wise by betting their money on the wild-eyed entreprenuers...).

-chris


"Because after an eight-year hiatus it is vital to have a president who leads the country instead of lassoing, roping and branding it." Shaun Appleby
by chrisblask on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 04:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: While I don't disagree completely (2.00 / 2)

Much of what you say is true. My point is that the powers that be, the oil companies in this case, are too invested in old technology to want to see any change. They have 100's of billions of dollars in refineries, oil exploration, current wells, and future leases at stake. They can't let go of this investment without a fight.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 04:34:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Absolutely (none / 0)

they will only let go of it if they can come to understand that Everything Will Be All Right from their perspective (which may or may not be true, depending on a lot of things).  We still need energy companies capable of handling things on a massive scale (even if that is only manufacturing, service and installation of home generation - which it isn't) and oil is not becoming valueless any time soon, so if BP for example really can become Beyond Petroleum then they'll be fine.

But not for all of them.  Fortunes will be lost, jobs destroyed, industries brought to their knees before it is all over.  And we will have to come to terms with the fact that the majority of those negatively affected will be regular folks (grandmothers invested in Shell, oil-rig workers, ...) and without some care and luck every one of us in a global economic meltdown and resulting warfare and poverty (course, those are extreme cases I'm 99% sure we'll avoid).

Regardless, it needs to happen.  To get it done we just need to be very pragmatic and very little idealistic.

-best

-chris


"Because after an eight-year hiatus it is vital to have a president who leads the country instead of lassoing, roping and branding it." Shaun Appleby
by chrisblask on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 05:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fly Me To The Moon (none / 0)

As a nation we became arrogant and lethargic and because of the success of the 90's we were on cloud nine. We became complacent, thinking that sacrifice was a thing of the past. The energy crisis is probably the greatest struggle that has faced us in quite a while. The solution isn't easy, and thats what people are having a hard time wrapping their heads around.

What ever doesn't kill you makes you stronger?

Honestly, I dont think the solution is natural gas or nuclear technology.

I have no idea what the solution will be [maybe a mixture of many things]. But its up to the the scientists and engineers of this country to spear head the movement in finding the solution.  Its up to our political leaders to make sure the proper movements are taken to shift us away from the path we've been on. And its up to the American public to keep an open mind as to the solution and be prepared to work hard and sacrifice once again, as we have done so many countless times before;


"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:45:49 PM EST


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